What do Muslims think about the Trinity?

In my investigation of Islam and how it relates to Christianity, I came across a very interesting Muslim blog site called “Cool Guy Muslim’s Blog”.  It instructs Muslims on how to argue with Christians about the Trinity.  See how they are thinking and how you would respond.  Since the doctrine of the Trinity is such a crucial doctrine to understand, we will focus on that for the next few weeks.

Here’s the text from that blog post:

How to Answer the Trinity

 

The point of this post is to help provide people involved in dawah [ proselytizing] with different ways to approach answering the trinity that exists in Christianity:

• In my humble opinion, the best way to approach the trinity is to ask about its existence in the Bible.  Even though the trinity is the basis of Christianity theology, it is never explicitly mentioned in the Bible.  One verse Christians often try to use the verse, ”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God…” (John 1:1) to claim the belief of the trinity is mentioned in the Bible.  However, two things can be noted here.  One is that since the trinity is the crux of the religion, why is it that it is only hinted at implicitly in the Bible and never mentioned explicitly.  The second point is that this verse was added in the sixteen century.  The Bible has been changed over time according to the Bible itself as stated in Jeremiah 8:8!
• [How does a Christian respond?  Look up Jeremiah 8:8 and see it in context!]

 

• Point out that Jesus never stated he was God or the son of God, rather this idea came about with Constantine who wanted to unite the Christians under one dogma (Athinisus) in 325 A.D.
• [Check out John 8:58 to see what Jesus SAID about Himself, and why they wanted to kill Him for blasphemy, saying that He was God.  For the OT reference, look up Ex 3:14.....]

 

• Another question that can asked to Christians is that there no proof that Jesus ever said that he is God or the Son of God.  Jesus does mention God as the Father in the Bible.  However, in the same sense, David is mentioned as the son of God (Psalms 2), then why is that David is not also considered the son of God?  Furthermore, the Bible refers to mankind as the children of God.  Then, using the analogy with Jesus being the son of God, wouldn’t all humans be gods as well?
• [Hmmm...I'm not following his reasoning here...what do YOU think??]

 

• Another question you ask is whether the trinity is 1 in 3 or 3 in 1.  Most Christians actually have to think about this before they can answer this.  If they say 1 in 3, it is obvious polytheism.  If they say 3 in 1, you can ask them how many gods were then when Jesus died for three days (as is the belief in Christianity, Muslims believe Jesus never died).  They cannot answer two or else again, it is blatant polytheism and they will be stumpted.
• [I would answer ONE GOD! Would YOU be "stumpted" by this line of questioning??]

 

• Another scenario you can use is to ask whether Jesus was around before the world was created.  The Christians have to answer yes to such a question.  Then you can ask if he knew and wanted to die for the sins of mankind.  Again, the Christians are forced to answer yes.  Then, you can ask why Jesus’s last words before he was put on the cross were, “Oh God, why have You forsaken me?”  There is no answer for this as Jesus should have wanted to die for mankind’s sins.
• [Good question!  Comments anyone??]

 

• One really good technique I have came across is that of asking about the Prophets before Jesus.  It is no secret that Noah, Moses, Jacob, and Joseph all preached monotheism without the insertion of a child of God.  Now, you can ask why did these Prophets never mention that God had a child.  Why is that only after Jesus came did the idea come to surface?  Using the above statement, ask if God has a daughter or a second son.  The Christian will surely answer no.  Then ask him how we know that for sure.  The Prophets before never preached the first son.  Is it not possible that a second son of a daughter of God could come and start preaching again in a few hundred years?
• [How do we know this for sure?  John 3:16 is a good place to start....Jesus was the ONE and ONLY SON]

 

• Ask them whether Jesus went to the bathroom and if he ate and drank.  They will have to answer yes.  Ask them how is that God is in need of such things when God is perfect.  In fact, how is that a god can be inside the womb/stomach of the a human being?  Some people are naive and they will say that this was the human Jesus and the divine Jesus is different.  Then ask them what is the breakdown of human versus divine Jesus, is it 50-50?  You can point out in history this view has changed many times going from all human to all divine to fifty-fifty and back and forth.  Obviously there can only be one correct answer, but then why does the church keep changing its opinion on such an issue?
• [OK...what is the right answer?  100-100!!  Before reaching the age of 20, Athanasius wrote a treatise entitled On the Incarnation, affirming and explaining that Jesus was both God and Man. In about 319 AD, when Athanasius was a deacon, a presbyter named Arius began teaching that there was a time before God the Father begat Jesus Christ when the latter did not exist. Athanasius responded that the Father's begetting of the Son, or uttering of the Word, was an eternal relationship between them, not an event that took place within time. Thus began catholic Christianity's fight against the heresy of Arianism. Athanasius fought consistently against Arianism all his life. He accompanied bishop Alexander to the First Council of Nicaea in 325, which council produced the Nicene Creed and anathematized Arius and his followers.]

 

• There is a type of Bible available that highlights in red Jesus’s words.  I’m not exactly sure what the name of this Bible is, but if one reads it, it is clear that Jesus is preaching pure tawheed (monotheism).
• [Wonder how Cool Guy Muslim explains Jesus' words in John 8:58....hmmmm.....and I think he is right...Jesus would say that there is ONE God.  Check out John 20:28, Rom 9:5, Titus 2:13, and 1 John 5:20.....]

 

• One can also ask if God, the Father, wanted to destroy the other two, could He?  They will generally answer yes and this is a clear contradiction of the separate yet equal scenario.
• [Asking the impossible...like "would God want to SIN?.....ridiculous!]

 

• Ask for a logical analogy of the trinity.  Generally, Christians will have one of following three analogies.  The first one is the idea of the egg in which exists the shell, the white, and the yoke.  In this type of analogy, one can simply show that each of the different parts of the egg have different textures and purposes.  For example, when they are separated they are not the same.  One can be a daughter, sister and wife all at the same thing but once you are separated, you cannot have the same attributes to the same things.  For example, you cannot be the sister of your father, right?  The analogy is definitely not separate yet still equal as equal implies they do everything the same. 
• [Here Cool Guy is absolutely correct.  Many Christians WILL try to use an analogy, which usually breaks down and actually does damage to the doctrine of the Trinity.  Many analogies are false because they promote MODALISM, the view that God just puts on a mask and plays different roles at different times in history...heresy!]

 

• Another analogy Christians use is the fire with the fire, flame, and heat.  Again these are not separate yet still equal.  Christians believe that God and Jesus are separate.  But once you separate them, aren’t they now different completely as is the care with heat versus the flame versus the fire.
• [Right again...stay away from analogies or be prepared to explain from Scripture how it is a true analogy.  Augustine said, "If you deny the Trinity, you lose your soul.  If you try to explain it, you lose your mind!"

 

• Another common analogy is the idea of water with gas, liquid, and solid form.  However, here again, one can do different things with one form that one can’t do with another form.  For example, I can peg you with a cube of ice but I can’t do that with steam, can I?  This is another example of three different things that are separate, but still not equal.
• [Yep, stay away from this analogy, too!]

 

• You should also bring up the fitrah.  The idea that everyone has this natural inclination to believe in one Supreme Being.  Even a little child believes in a Greater Being.  However, no one naturally things of the trinity.  It is something that is taught and deceptively accepted by the people.
• [I believe our natural inclinations are to, yes maybe believe in one Supreme Being, but also to rebel against God, and that it takes a SUPERnatural intervention in our lives to take our DEAD hearts and make them LIVE...see Ephesians 2]

 

• One simple way to go with logic is to ask if God has a cousin or an uncle or an aunt.  The answer is obviously no.  You can continue to ask if God has a grandmother or parent or grandchild or nephew.  Again, the answer is no.  Then you can continue to ask if God has a daughter or brother or son.  The answer by logic would be no.
  [Wonder what kind of logic system this is?  Hmmm...]

Often times, Christians get frustrated and they say that you just need to have faith.  This is a great time to invite them to Islam where you can say you are inviting them to a religion that does allows you to combine faith with logic.

[Christianity does NOT have a logical basis?  Where is the logic of Islam?  :) ]

I would like to note that even though there are numerous logical arguments against the trinity, it is still better to promote Islam and tawheed (true monotheism).  One can show that the worship of other than Allah is strictly prohibited in Islam.  Making dua to the Prophet Muhammad is strictly not allowed.  Furthermore, you can show that Muslims believe in Jesus and no Muslim is a Muslim unless he believes in Jesus. 

[Really? James 2:19 will verify that..."You believe that God is one; you do well.  Even the demons believe--and shudder!]

I got many of the arguments above from Kamal el Mekki’s “How to Give a Shahada in Ten Minutes” (http://mustaqeem.wordpress.com/2007/08/19/how-to-give-a-shahada-in-ten-minutes/).